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26、Aries666 said: ↑
Interpreting the removal of Ming's inwardperfection as a nerf to hordes is somewhat stretching it.
-----引用24楼
There is no point playing one of the Manchutribes now so yes, it's an indirect nerf to Hordes. Unless Qing also counts asa Chinese culture union, which there was no indication of in the patch notes.
玩女真三部之一并卵用现在完全如此，这本来就是变相削游牧。除非清也是中华母国，而这在新版本里面没说啊。
27、wingzero890 said: ↑
There is no point playing one of the Manchutribes now so yes, it's an indirect nerf to Hordes. Unless Qing also counts asa Chinese culture union, which there was no indication of in the patch notes.
---引用上一楼
Wait, shouldn't you play a Manchu tribejust because it sounds cool?
等一哈，难道你玩女真部落不是因为它的名字听起来坏坏哒吗？
28、"There is nopoint playing one of the Manchu tribes now"
-----引用‘玩女真部落并卵用’。
Except... for fun?
还可以是···好玩？
29、Ayde said: ↑
"There is no point playing one of theManchu tribes now"
Except... for fun?
---引用上一楼。
Hordes were pretty fun several patches ago.Now, not so much.
几个版本之前游牧很好玩。现在？不那么好玩。
30、
wingzero890 said: ↑
Well this makes Qing rather pointless. Iguess they gave up trying to represent the Qing?
Yeah that was my first thought, throughMing losing always is as absurd as never losing.
---引用P社不给清带盐。
是啊，那是我第一个念头，虽说明总是输和总是不输一样荒谬。
31、
If Ming is really strong to begin thispatch (big if, still a lot of downsides!) could we find a way to make the favorof heaven easier to lose? Like if you defeated Ming in several pitched battlesas the Manchu or Japan, ect that would start the crumbling pretty quickly,without having to potentially siege down the giantness of China while the Mingsimply rebuilt their armies
如果明正德在这个版本开始变强（虽然变强，但还是有一堆短板），我们能想办法让天命更容易丢掉吗？比如你作为满洲、日本等等打赢明几次就能加快这个进程而不用必须完全占领它，不然它隔一会又拉出一堆兵、
Interpreting the removal of Ming's inwardperfection as a nerf to hordes is somewhat stretching it.
-----引用24楼
There is no point playing one of the Manchutribes now so yes, it's an indirect nerf to Hordes. Unless Qing also counts asa Chinese culture union, which there was no indication of in the patch notes.
玩女真三部之一并卵用现在完全如此，这本来就是变相削游牧。除非清也是中华母国，而这在新版本里面没说啊。
27、wingzero890 said: ↑
There is no point playing one of the Manchutribes now so yes, it's an indirect nerf to Hordes. Unless Qing also counts asa Chinese culture union, which there was no indication of in the patch notes.
---引用上一楼
Wait, shouldn't you play a Manchu tribejust because it sounds cool?
等一哈，难道你玩女真部落不是因为它的名字听起来坏坏哒吗？
28、"There is nopoint playing one of the Manchu tribes now"
-----引用‘玩女真部落并卵用’。
Except... for fun?
还可以是···好玩？
29、Ayde said: ↑
"There is no point playing one of theManchu tribes now"
Except... for fun?
---引用上一楼。
Hordes were pretty fun several patches ago.Now, not so much.
几个版本之前游牧很好玩。现在？不那么好玩。
30、
wingzero890 said: ↑
Well this makes Qing rather pointless. Iguess they gave up trying to represent the Qing?
Yeah that was my first thought, throughMing losing always is as absurd as never losing.
---引用P社不给清带盐。
是啊，那是我第一个念头，虽说明总是输和总是不输一样荒谬。
31、
If Ming is really strong to begin thispatch (big if, still a lot of downsides!) could we find a way to make the favorof heaven easier to lose? Like if you defeated Ming in several pitched battlesas the Manchu or Japan, ect that would start the crumbling pretty quickly,without having to potentially siege down the giantness of China while the Mingsimply rebuilt their armies
如果明正德在这个版本开始变强（虽然变强，但还是有一堆短板），我们能想办法让天命更容易丢掉吗？比如你作为满洲、日本等等打赢明几次就能加快这个进程而不用必须完全占领它，不然它隔一会又拉出一堆兵、
54、Clownie said: ↑
You're wrong. It means hordes get the sameshock bonus on flat territory introduced in AoW, but still only in their ownland.
----回复游牧冲击的地域问题。
Were they not getting those bonuses ontheir own farmlands and drylands before? I haven't played a Horde in forever,so I'm not sure if somehow those bonuses were not working before on farmlandsand drylands. But if they were, it makes no sense to put them in a list ofpatch changes if they weren't changed somehow.
难道之前游牧在自家的田地以及旱地上得不到冲击吗？我从不玩游牧，所以我不太确定是不是它们之前不能在特定的土地上得到冲击加成。不过如果是的话，这感觉没啥意义专门给它们列出一条更新说明啊，因为这也没改变啥。
55、Demetriossaid: ↑
Were they not getting those bonuses ontheir own farmlands and drylands before? I haven't played a Horde in forever,so I'm not sure if somehow those bonuses were not working before on farmlandsand drylands. But if they were, it makes no sense to put them in a list ofpatch changes if they weren't changed somehow.
------回复楼上
They weren't working since the new terrainwas introduced. I'd guess it was just an oversight. Qara Qoyunlu was reallyhurt by the lack of drylands bonus though.
在新地形出来后，他们没有正常得到冲击修正。我猜着只是一个疏忽，黑羊就是因为缺少这个修正非常的伤。
56、Wiz said: ↑
This is my point though, some people seemso invested in fighting the Horde rebellion against the evil designers of EU4that they don't even notice when their pet Khans actually get a buff. It's morethan a little tiresome.
-----回复网管
And what about people fighting AmericanNative rebellion against evil designers?
那么人们在对付美洲原住民起义的时候对设计的抱怨呢？
57、zdlugasz said: ↑
And what about people fighting AmericanNative rebellion against evil designers?
回复楼上
HEY! Their hatred for natives is real!
On a serious note though, that's not really the same thing, there are a lot ofpeople that want more stuff for the natives, but noone really seems to thinkthat Paradox are hell-bent on destroying them.
嘿！他们对原住民的憎恶真是啊。
这实际上是一回事，有许多人想要从原住民那里拿到更多的东西，但是没人真看起来意识到P社正在憋着坏的想干掉他们。
58、Wiz said: ↑
I have completely ceased to take complaintsabout horde nerfs seriously at this point. It's become more a weird forums cultthan anything.
----回复网管暴走
I think, these days, it is more of a forummeme than anything serious. However, it has some basis, as, in the past, thehordes did suffer a whole series of nerfs, over successive patches,despite the fact that they weren't even close to overperforming tobegin with. Said nerfs didn't just reduce the capabilties of hordesbut they significantly reduced the gameplay options available to theplayer. As such, some people are still a little bitter.
我觉得，随着时间的推移，这是论坛的正常发展吧，不是什么别的太重要的事情。当然，它是有原因的，就像，在过去的时候，一次次的更新里游牧的确有许多的削弱，即使上它们从来没有在开局的时候表现的非常牛逼。说削游牧并不单单指的是削弱游牧的能力，而是降低了游戏性上的选择性。因此，有些人依然觉得苦逼。
You're wrong. It means hordes get the sameshock bonus on flat territory introduced in AoW, but still only in their ownland.
----回复游牧冲击的地域问题。
Were they not getting those bonuses ontheir own farmlands and drylands before? I haven't played a Horde in forever,so I'm not sure if somehow those bonuses were not working before on farmlandsand drylands. But if they were, it makes no sense to put them in a list ofpatch changes if they weren't changed somehow.
难道之前游牧在自家的田地以及旱地上得不到冲击吗？我从不玩游牧，所以我不太确定是不是它们之前不能在特定的土地上得到冲击加成。不过如果是的话，这感觉没啥意义专门给它们列出一条更新说明啊，因为这也没改变啥。
55、Demetriossaid: ↑
Were they not getting those bonuses ontheir own farmlands and drylands before? I haven't played a Horde in forever,so I'm not sure if somehow those bonuses were not working before on farmlandsand drylands. But if they were, it makes no sense to put them in a list ofpatch changes if they weren't changed somehow.
------回复楼上
They weren't working since the new terrainwas introduced. I'd guess it was just an oversight. Qara Qoyunlu was reallyhurt by the lack of drylands bonus though.
在新地形出来后，他们没有正常得到冲击修正。我猜着只是一个疏忽，黑羊就是因为缺少这个修正非常的伤。
56、Wiz said: ↑
This is my point though, some people seemso invested in fighting the Horde rebellion against the evil designers of EU4that they don't even notice when their pet Khans actually get a buff. It's morethan a little tiresome.
-----回复网管
And what about people fighting AmericanNative rebellion against evil designers?
那么人们在对付美洲原住民起义的时候对设计的抱怨呢？
57、zdlugasz said: ↑
And what about people fighting AmericanNative rebellion against evil designers?
回复楼上
HEY! Their hatred for natives is real!
On a serious note though, that's not really the same thing, there are a lot ofpeople that want more stuff for the natives, but noone really seems to thinkthat Paradox are hell-bent on destroying them.
嘿！他们对原住民的憎恶真是啊。
这实际上是一回事，有许多人想要从原住民那里拿到更多的东西，但是没人真看起来意识到P社正在憋着坏的想干掉他们。
58、Wiz said: ↑
I have completely ceased to take complaintsabout horde nerfs seriously at this point. It's become more a weird forums cultthan anything.
----回复网管暴走
I think, these days, it is more of a forummeme than anything serious. However, it has some basis, as, in the past, thehordes did suffer a whole series of nerfs, over successive patches,despite the fact that they weren't even close to overperforming tobegin with. Said nerfs didn't just reduce the capabilties of hordesbut they significantly reduced the gameplay options available to theplayer. As such, some people are still a little bitter.
我觉得，随着时间的推移，这是论坛的正常发展吧，不是什么别的太重要的事情。当然，它是有原因的，就像，在过去的时候，一次次的更新里游牧的确有许多的削弱，即使上它们从来没有在开局的时候表现的非常牛逼。说削游牧并不单单指的是削弱游牧的能力，而是降低了游戏性上的选择性。因此，有些人依然觉得苦逼。
LZ 厉害，连评论都翻译。。。
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